[NZs no.3]

So this would have made really good content for the forum about a month ago,  but I don't play games as we all know.

I fulfilled a blood oath (thanks Jargonion) and once I moved into my new house I bought the Dark Souls trilogy for PS4 (pretty cheap to get physical copy) and started on DS2 as promised..

I've played DS1 a few years ago (regular edition) on PC and got about 3/4 through with only 3 bosses left. DS1 is pretty old now and slow and clunky as fuck so I don't think I'll go back.

DS2 however has been sold to me as being a dam good jam and a must play. And yeah, it really is. Dam fine game and fuck I loved it. Let's review:

- not nearly as slow and clunky as I had previously been lead to believe (compared to bloodborne and ds3)
- boat loads of content In the Scholar of the First Sin version. The whole game was revamped. Difficultly tweaks, redid enemy placements,  new bosses and items etc. Plus all dlc bundled in.
- bonfire aesthetics are a cool mechanic that never lived past 2. Which is a shame.
- 80% of the bosses are an absolute push over. For a dark souls game I didn't struggle much at all. I did maybe 70% of the game by myself and only ever had real trouble with one boss: the Smelter Demon. Eventually I cooped him with Jargonion. The rest of the game I didn't have trouble with many of the bosses at all. If I didn't kill them the first time, I killed them the second time.
- too ezy with npcs maybe. Last boss game me access to 3 npcs. Boy we rocked that last 3 boss fight.
- DLC's: get Fucking hard mode. Once I got to the dlcs then the difficulty really jumped. Fuck the Fume Knight. He was a serious challenge that I always got so close to beating before he pulled out a move I had never seen. Turns out he's ranked one of the most difficult bosses of the whole series. Ended up cheesing him with 4 human players.
- I don't care how bad you are at games, if you can't beat bosses with 6 people then you might as well end yourself.

In conclusion, it's a 10/10 game. Loved it. Got me right back into the groove of a souls game. So I started DS3 a few days later.

Currently I am 20 hours into DS3 and as a review in process I'll say:
- better than DS2 for sure. Combat is fast and fluid just like Bloodborne which I love
- way harder, I swear! I am having way more trouble with areas and bosses than I did in DS2.
- way less souls? Pretty sure in general I'm getting less souls and leveling up slower than I did in DS2
- asset and boss copy and paste galore. I know it's set in the same region, but you can see some ideas being stretched out here. Reskin bosses, enemies and some areas. Assets from bloodborne are also present in this game. It's a minor gripe, but still.
- that area in Anor Londo where you have to run along small sections of a cathedral roof with silver knights firing giant arrows from great bows is in this game. It was bs in DS1 and it's bs on DS3. Git gud and fuck me up why don't you
- no armor upgrades. I think that's for the best. It actually makes armor sets unique and each set is different. Instead of finding an OK set then upgrading it enough so nothing else is close to it.
- not a fan of being auto summoned to defend or invade for your faction of choice. It interrupts your play session. Its lead to me unequiping my faction so it doesn't happen. If I want to do multiplayer, it has to be voluntary, not automatic. I don't mind getting invaded randomly, but I don't like bring forced to invade someone.


I will continue to post my DS3 journey. Im guessing I'm about half way through at this point. 2 of the 4 lords of cinder are dead.



OVERALL RANKING OF SOULSBORNE GAMES (plus Sekiro)

Sekiro is my favorite as a stand alone, followed by Bloodborne. So:
Serkiro >= Bloodborne > Dark Souls 2 > Dark Souls 1

Let's see where Dark Souls 3 falls once I'm done.

---

Forgot to mention. As per From Software standard, level design is impeccable and one of the best parts of their games. Ds2 and ds3 are fantastic in this regard.

[NZs no.3]

Further thoughts: Not a big fan of the auto-summoning factions mechanic.

You can join one of many covenants like every other Dark Souls game, and depending on your covenant it can alter your multiplayer experience.

In DS3 though, depending on your covenant you get automatically summoned to defend an area, to help a host from another player invasion, or summoned as an invader yourself. This kept happening to me no matter which faction I choose. Very annoying because DS3 still has very active online so I was getting interrupted loads and summoned away to areas just to be a victim of the terrible lag the game series is famous for and get killed each time by OP dudes who play for the PvP side of it.

I've done some research on different covenants and turns out I was just getting unlucky a picking covenants which had this mechanic. Not all covenants are like this.

It's just change ive found compared to all other games so far. Not a big deal, but I definitely like multiplayer being voluntary for me. Not automatic. I don't mind being invaded, but being forced to invade someone or defend etc. is just a pain in the ass when im trying to get through an area myself.

As said though, just join a covenant which doesn't do this or unequip your covenant or play offline. Problem solved.

[womblemuppet]

the multiplayer mode always looked random to me in these games. am i missing something? What's the point of challenging yourself to beat singleplayer, but when you get stuck with a boss your friends can come gang-bukkake the guy?

[NZs no.3]

am i missing something?

Probably. This was a quick answer but now I find myself diving into the multiplayer mechanics.

The idea from the original Demon's Souls which has carried over to every Soulsborne game since is bloodstains and messages. There isn't much in the way of tutorials or much guidance in these games. So watching peoples deaths through bloodstains and reading peoples tips or trolly messages would help make your way through the game. Messages can be upvoted and downvoted too. So more popular messages make it to a wider audience and pop up in a lot of peoples games. Additionally, you can see other players "ghosts" wandering around. This allows you to see what other players do at the same place as you. Can give you a heads up on what coming etc. I don't think they are real time like I was led to believe originally. I think they can best be described as "recent recordings". These 3 mechanics make for a cool asynchronous multiplayer experience imo. Of course you can play offline too, then you will see nothing (boo. no fun).

Then there is the coop and PVP side of the game. For PVP you can use a consumable item to invade someone else's world. I'm pretty sure all games play by the same basic rule that you can invade anyone your level or higher, but there is a minimum invasion level in place so high level players can't go invading low level players. It's all random, so you just use the item and then wait while the game finds you someone to invade. If you kill the invader, you get some (i think) some of their souls. If they kill you, well, they just ruin your day. The game throws a handful of NPC invaders at you throughout each game too I've found. So even if you play offline, it's something you have to deal with from time to time. You can only also be invaded when you are human, and not hollow. Or the equivalent for each game. So if you are getting your ass kicked, but want to remain online you can stay hollow/whatever it might be (at a disadvantage though depending on the game) and not be subject to invasions.

I didn't get invaded in DS2 that much, but the game doesn't have the same player base anymore. When I played Bloodborne I got invaded heaps. And I'm getting invaded quite regularly in DS3.

For coop, much like PVP, you can only participate by using a consumable item (Humanity/Human Effigy/Ember/Insight for each game respectively). You get one of these each time you kill a boss, they can be bought for souls in most cases, and are lying around levels to find. However every time you die, you need to use another to get back into this multiplayer state. So if you only have a few and keep fucking up, then eventually you won't be able to play until you find/buy another. I tend to use them sparingly so I have quite a few in surplus atm. I save them for when i do multiplayer if I need help. You can only also coop in an area where you have a boss to kill. The players you summon in will disappear once the boss of the area is dead. So you can't just walk through the whole game with people by your side. This also means you can only summon players who are further than you in the game, since you can't summon people in an area where the boss has already been defeated.

I can't remember about DS1, but in DS2 you can only coop with people within a certain 'soul memory' range as yourself. E.g. if you were soul level 10 you can coop with people 1 level up and 2 down. There is an item that expands this range by a few levels too. In Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne, you can set passwords so you can guarantee being able to coop with your friends. There were similar restrictions with levels like DS2, but these were removed in a patch. As it stands you can coop with anyone in DS3 and Bloodborne, it just scales your level and power when you turn up to around the hosts level.

So, its a pretty fair system. DS3 and BB removing its restrictions to me looks like an effort to make it more appealing to a wider audience. I think another issue introduced which they did to make it appeal to more people and not come across as "hard" was boost the number of coop players from 3 to 6. In DS2/3 you can have 6 people cooping a boss. This is for sure easy mode. Bloodborne remains at 3 still.

What's the point of challenging yourself to beat singleplayer, but when you get stuck with a boss your friends can come gang-bukkake the guy?

Yeah it's an interesting balance for sure. For me I try to kill everything I can by myself. I did 70% of DS2 by myself and cooped a couple of areas/bosses with Jargonion. In DS3 I've cooped one area with a mate so far, and one area online with a random.

If I am really struggling with a boss or want to move on, I try see if there is anyone in the area to help. Typically I've found you only really find summon signs around really tough bosses. Experienced players seem to always be around to help with real cunt bosses. In DS3 I've found them regularly enough, since the game is still active as.

But yeah, since they seem to have casualised the coop a little bit to appeal to more people as the series got more popular, you can cheese bosses if you want. You can hardly complain about the game being hard if you manage to summon in 5 other people. The bosses get destroyed. They don't have the AI (from what i've seen) to deal with many players. They get stuck walking back and forward between the last player to aggro them and get their attention.

For DS3 this is a problem. If you have 5 friends past you then you can guarantee you can summon them all for a boss fight. In Dark Souls 2, unless you and a friend are basically going through the game at a similar pace, you won't be able to summon each other for help. You are relying on randoms now for a game which isn't that active anymore.

Bloodborne is still capped at 2, which is alot better. I still got murdered a bunch even with help in Bloodborne.

[taco]

What I'm hearing is that Dark Souls games are hard, except,
- there's a feature to spoil surprises and traps to subvert good level design
- defeat bosses by bringing in more allies than the bosses have been designed to fight
- other players can turn up and ruin whatever you're up to unrelated to the task you're trying to do

so, they make a good game but have also thrown bones to trolls, spoilers and wimps

[NZs no.3]

- the messages you leave you have to pick from a small selection of words. Its more common people use it to troll you or tell you to watch out cause 'danger'. The levels can kill you cheap in one hit depending on the trap. The point in the system is to get a potential heads up, if you read the messages.
- I agree with this. It wasn't the case for base DS2, only in the remaster was the limit raised to 6. I doubt you'll ever get close to 6 until the dlcs MAYBE. So shits still hard.
- This is a great feature. Just to remind you that you are at the bottom of the worm pile. It's also something you don't have to suffer through. If it makes your blood boil you just don't consume the item that puts you online.

so, they make a good game but have also thrown bones to trolls, spoilers and wimps

Sounds like you can beat it. Go get DS2 on steam and make Jargonion happy.

[womblemuppet]

am i missing something?

long post

thanks for the write-up. it seems a lot more gimmicky than only just having bosses fightable co-op, but it sounds fun in it's own way.

[NZs no.3]

but it sounds fun in it's own way.

Its a really cool set of systems that makes a decent multiplayer experience. I'd recommend giving any of the games a shot at some point.

[taco]

Just to be clear my main opposition to a game that accommodates wimps is that it makes it harder for me to bitch out

I don't want help I just want to lose gracelessly and then stop playing

[NZs no.3]

I don't want help I just want to lose gracelessly and then stop playing

Well good news friend! The game is currently on sale for the low low price of $16nzd:



For that price you can buy it, lose gracelessly to the first handful of enemies you encounter, then refund it all within 2 hours and get your money back!

Plus you'll have a story to tell Jargonion and he might be slightly proud, or just call you a wimp that bitched out.



FUCKING DO IT NOW DO IT
https://store.steampowered.com/app/33530...First_Sin/